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neverhangover
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"Official" VU Weapon Stat Revision thread

Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:32 am

:D Hey there peeps! This is something I've been thinking about for a long time now.

I. What if VU had an official set of rebalanced weapon stats ? Fixing any bugs and flaws the devs (might) have overlooked.
When it gets released, people hosting their own servers could choose between the original set of weapon stats and a 'recommended by VU' set.

(>inb4: They have to fix bugs first/this isn't our top priority/no time for this/ they haven't even finished the closed beta yet blablabla)
-Where exactly does it say in the title that I WANT IT NAO ? If we only started gathering ideas after the whole thing gets released, progress will be much slower.
Also, this is something we, the community could develop, and test in a CTE-like test server once the open beta launches, all we need from the devs is feedback, and a review of the finished product.

By now, it probably has occurred to most of you that while DICE did a (somewhat) good job balancing out the vanilla weapons, some of the DLC weapons are just HORRIBLE. Also, Type 88 anyone ? ;)

Here are some of the weapons I think could absolutely use some tweaking:
-LSAT LMG
-Type 88 LMG
-MG36 LMG
-PP-19 PDW
-PDW-s in general...
-Some burst fire weapons (M4,M16A4)

When it comes to the LSAT, everyone knows what i'm talking about. It just sucks in every single way, except maybe for hipfire, but that doesn't count for much, as the gun only fires at a slow 650 RPM, you're gonna get out-gunned by everyone in CQC. It has high recoil, horrible ADS accuracy, horrible RPM, it needs some rebalancing, perhaps a little bump in RPM and controllability, but not necessarily in accuracy.
-Type 88, same thing, though this gun doesn't have a high recoil,or decent hipfire. LMGs firing this slow usually deal higher damage (i.e. PKP/M60/M240B) but this one doesn't. My thoughts on balancing this one would be to increase its ADS accuracy dramatically, making it a slow-firing but really controllable precision weapon, capable of consistent hits down range, making it suitable for conquest games. At this point, it would rival the L86A2, but that one also has great hipfire accuracy (hence bullpup design) and shorter reload time.
MG36. This one is kind of an odd one. This gun had a few problems since its been added to the game, like the extended mag glitch, but it still hasn't seen any kind of good care. You don't see people using it because it has nothing going for it. High recoil, terrible accuracy....
PP-19 This is a debatable one. Most people don't like it, they say it is underpowered, others consider it an average PDW, but hardly anyone uses it. Main problem? Insanely low minimum damage. This is something that plagues all PDW-s, and while it might seem fair to cripple them at longer ranges, this has some bad influence on gameplay.

The main goal of PDW-s in BF3 is to be able to play an offensive/mobile role in combat, even if your class is more of a support kind. Or in other words, to be able to use support gadgets, (ammo/radio/SOFLAM/C4/mortar) without suffering in close-quarters combat. This sounds good when read, but when playing a 64 player Conquest Large game, you'll quickly find yourself emptying an entire magazine at opponents 50meters away from a P90, 2 mags from a UMP-45 and so on, all this while getting constant hitmarkers. I will not go into details on how realistic this is, (a 9mm is still deadly AF even at further ranges -iraqveteran8888)
but this was all in hardcore mode, which I always play. I can't imagine how hard it could be to kill an enemy at that range in NORMAL mode with a damage model like this. Right now there is only one PDW that could serve you in medium-long range combat, and that is the AS VAL. Which chews ammo like there's no tomorrow, and is also integrally suppressed, giving you even fewer choices in customization.
Now, DICE did notice the issue, and applied a fix in BF4, by making carbines the new universal weapons. They are more accurate, have higher minimum damage, they were the foundation of the engineer class in BF3. This effectively killed all PDW-s in BF4.
I don't want to go down the same route. PDW-s are already a TDM only weapon class.....
The first step to fixing PDW-s IMO is to raise their minimum damage to 14 universally, (except for the AS VAL and the PDW-R,which already have higher minimums) after that, we should see what else could be or needed to be done. They already have bad accuracy, they don't need another nerf.

Another problem of PDWs is the lack of customization, as you find yourself running with extended mags most of the time. Personally, I haven't seen anyone running the AS VAL with anything other than extended mags once they've unlocked it. This is again a more complex topic, but feel free to share your observations or your thoughts on fixing this issue. This is something everyone can contribute to.

These are just a few things that came to mind, but there are more things to discuss.

All that said about weapons, some of the attachment stats are just obscene as well.
This is a blurred area, as we still don't know to what extend can we fiddle with attachments, but it is safe to say that we should be able to tweak most config values.
I don't plan to do anything drastic, but has anyone heard about a foregrip decreasing accuracy and increasing bullet spread? really DICE ? :roll:
Attachments are something that people can use to make their guns even better at certain situations, and I don't think DICE's drastic ballancing should be applied here. Example ? the above mentioned foregrip, making your gun less accurate, (DICE logic :idea: ) and the flash suppressor doing the same.
When applying a foregrip, you've already lost the benefit of having a bipod, or a fast m320, why on earth should you require further punishment ?
When applying a flash suppressor, you've already lost the accuracy/damage benefit of a heavy barrel, why should you even lose accuracy compared to no attachment ???
There are a few other things that bother me, like how you can use an underbarrel M26 on a G3A3, but not a GP-30 ?!
You can equip a flash supp./heavy barrel on an SKS, but not on other DMRs ?
But these are less important.
The other thing I think about a lot is removing the scope glint that you get when equipping 6x/7x/8x/12x scopes. But that would create a whole new clusterf*ck, as it ocurred to me a few weeks ago when playing on Caspian Border. I was on Hilltop, capturing the objective, when I saw 4-5 recons camping the site from a nearby rock with M98B-s. What is wrong with this situation ?
1.) They contribute nothing to the team, except for protecting 1 flag from infantry only
2.) They hold up player slots, which could've gone to people playing the objective
3.) If 12x Ballistic scopes get their 'shining' taken away, 50 000 noob kids will do nothing but camp all day long on every server.
Now, one potential way of fixing this is something I see more and more often, and that is to introduce sniper slots to every server, capping the sniper limit at 2-3 players per team. But this also affects people who might be using the recon kit, but using PDW-s. The right way is to cap the limit of bolt action rifles per team. DMRs are not much of a problem IMO, but those could be regulated aswell using this method.

Also, I would not necessarily disable scope-glint on all scopes, but only on the 6x rifle scope and the 7x PSO-1 scope.
The reason behind this is that a good recon player with a suppressed M98B and a glint-free 12x scope could still dominate huge areas without any interruptions,(Without 3d spotting ofc, HC mode) but with a 7x scope max, it would be much harder for him. Also, both the 6X rifle and the 7x PSO are fairly underused, and they are pretty much universal, so people wouldn't need to stick to a class, or a weapon class to be effective at long range. A SCAR-H with a 6X scope is lethal at close range, (especially if laser is equipped) and really competitive at long range. (turn that laser off please)

Also, the 7x PSO-1's reticle is a bit crowded, to further scare away 12 year old noobs.

I wouldn't mind scope-glint disabled on 12x scopes, but unfortunately people would be too enthusiastic about camping along with 20some people playing hide and seek, and giving no f*cks about objectives. A fun way to compensate for them though would be to add 12x binoculars, but more on that later.
Another thing that came to mind was to 'weld' 12x scopes with a laser sight, that only turned on once you aim-down sight. (ADS) This is kind of an odd way of fixing it, but it would still be more realistic than a scope shining through the dark night on Tehran Highway for example...
It also wouldn't give your position away as much. The 12x scope shines in a 30 degree angle forward, while the laser could only be seen in a 10 degree angle when facing the sniper, so, essentially, they don't see you, just the ones you're shooting at. ;)

Last thing I wanted to talk about is possible gadgets/attachments that could be added to the game via VU. This is something that some of the community have discussed, saw kiwidog and a forum member discussing the possibility of a SRAW in BF3 for example. Now here are the gadgets/attachments that I think would be really useful if added.

-Binoculars (someone said that he'd love to see a PLD ingame. I really like the idea, though I don't know if it has a 'scope-glint' or not, I don't trust DICE...)
-FLIR sight (2x thermal sight. A lot better than the useless IRNV we have now, especially if it goes poof once you disable color grading)
-Angled foregrip (or more grips. Just like in BF4, they could add more options when customizing weapons)
-Coyote sight

(>inb4 "Why don't you just play BF4 ?")
Even though I really like the amount of customization BF4 brought to the table, I really despise every other design choices they made.
-Making Carbines universal - cool idea, but killed PDWs
-Making DMRs universal - cool idea, but they nerfed them to death
-horrible netcode/hit registration/etc - there are flaws with bf3, bf4 just seems unplayable for me
-bullet trails for recon - what.the.actual.f*ck. BF3 was already catering to the *ohmygoditstoohardIllgobacktoCOD* audience with the scope glint, now this ?
-bad map design
-another 500 DLCs

So here are my thoughts guys. ;) Feel free to add to the list, give your 2 cents, possible solutions.

Have an A1 day. :mrgreen:

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Professor.Oak
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Re: "Official" VU Weapon Stat Revision thread

Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:14 am

Lighting up on the minimap for just shooting your gun should be disabled by default.
3d spotting disabled by default.
Silencer nerf disabled by default.
Sun-flare disabled by default. Anyone who re-enables gets perma-banned :mrgreen:
Suppression effect disabled by default. Blur can stay, but the part where your bullet trajectory changes needs to be disabled.

I'm sure their are other easy fixes that can be implemented. I don't understand why these settings can't be the default. Will Venice get flame from DICE or EA?
I'm sure they won't mind. ReviveBF2 is a good example.
Please NoFaTe, make this happen.

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mizudg
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Re: "Official" VU Weapon Stat Revision thread

Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:31 am

Professor Oak, on the first couple of things, just play on Hardcore/Custom presets.. BF4 even added a "Classic" preset where these settings are present. I really prefer no 3D spotting like in BF2 over the BC2/BF3/4 way.
Image

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Professor.Oak
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Re: "Official" VU Weapon Stat Revision thread

Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:28 am

mizudg wrote:Professor Oak, on the first couple of things, just play on Hardcore/Custom presets.. BF4 even added a "Classic" preset where these settings are present. I really prefer no 3D spotting like in BF2 over the BC2/BF3/4 way.

It's not the same. I like the hitmarker. I don't like how fast I die on HC. I wish NoFaTe realizes that having the stock BF3 as the default for most servers won't be so fun for most players. Most players who join will be looking for a new experience and when they find out it's just the same thing as BF3, they'll leave. I want to experience BF3 like never before :lol: , from day 1 of the Official Launch or even Open Beta. Maybe NoFate can create the classic preset and the default server option would be Classic. For other users, they'll have the option to run the server on Downgrade (normal) or Hardcore mode.

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Freeshnik
Posts:470
Joined:Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:14 am

Re: "Official" VU Weapon Stat Revision thread

Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:16 pm

Professor.Oak wrote:Lighting up on the minimap for just shooting your gun should be disabled by default.
3d spotting disabled by default.
Silencer nerf disabled by default.
Sun-flare disabled by default. Anyone who re-enables gets perma-banned :mrgreen:
Suppression effect disabled by default. Blur can stay, but the part where your bullet trajectory changes needs to be disabled.

I'm sure their are other easy fixes that can be implemented. I don't understand why these settings can't be the default. Will Venice get flame from DICE or EA?
I'm sure they won't mind. ReviveBF2 is a good example.
Please NoFaTe, make this happen.

Image
Image

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blueman24
Posts:310
Joined:Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:12 pm

Re: "Official" VU Weapon Stat Revision thread

Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:12 pm

Professor.Oak wrote:Lighting up on the minimap for just shooting your gun should be disabled by default.
3d spotting disabled by default.
Silencer nerf disabled by default.
Sun-flare disabled by default. Anyone who re-enables gets perma-banned :mrgreen:
Suppression effect disabled by default. Blur can stay, but the part where your bullet trajectory changes needs to be disabled.

I'm sure their are other easy fixes that can be implemented. I don't understand why these settings can't be the default. Will Venice get flame from DICE or EA?
I'm sure they won't mind. ReviveBF2 is a good example.
Please NoFaTe, make this happen.

^^THIS! NoFaTe please. The things mentioned above should be disabled by default and there should be NO way to enable them again without getting banned. Having these things will make VU what all veterans want and will bring loads of bf2 guys (tactical players) into VU

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Rodney
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Re: "Official" VU Weapon Stat Revision thread

Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:39 pm

blueman24 wrote:
Professor.Oak wrote:Lighting up on the minimap for just shooting your gun should be disabled by default.
3d spotting disabled by default.
Silencer nerf disabled by default.
Sun-flare disabled by default. Anyone who re-enables gets perma-banned :mrgreen:
Suppression effect disabled by default. Blur can stay, but the part where your bullet trajectory changes needs to be disabled.

I'm sure their are other easy fixes that can be implemented. I don't understand why these settings can't be the default. Will Venice get flame from DICE or EA?
I'm sure they won't mind. ReviveBF2 is a good example.
Please NoFaTe, make this happen.

^^THIS! NoFaTe please. The things mentioned above should be disabled by default and there should be NO way to enable them again without getting banned. Having these things will make VU what all veterans want and will bring loads of bf2 guys (tactical players) into VU

That is a very stupid thing to say.
The idea (or at least one of them) behind VU ist freedom of customization. No setting should be locked if it doesn't have to (i.e. things that would just break the game).
Everybody should have the right to customize his/her server to his own taste, people will vote with their presence whether they like it or not.

You can create your own server with the settings /you/ want. If nobody likes it, nobody is going to play there. If people like it, more server admins might adapt the configuration. That's how it should work and that's how it's gonna be.
There used to be a signature here.

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blueman24
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Re: "Official" VU Weapon Stat Revision thread

Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:40 pm

Rodney wrote:That is a very stupid thing to say.
The idea (or at least one of them) behind VU ist freedom of customization. No setting should be locked if it doesn't have to (i.e. things that would just break the game).
Everybody should have the right to customize his/her server to his own taste, people will vote with their presence whether they like it or not.

You can create your own server with the settings /you/ want. If nobody likes it, nobody is going to play there. If people like it, more server admins might adapt the configuration. That's how it should work and that's how it's gonna be.


Hmm... yeah that sounds correct. I guess that I was wrong on that one (FAIL) but it would be great if these changes would be all together added to make a new preset just like we have hardcore.

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Paulofonta
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Location:Sintra - Portugal

Re: "Official" VU Weapon Stat Revision thread

Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:43 pm

Rodney wrote:That is a very stupid thing to say.
The idea (or at least one of them) behind VU ist freedom of customization. No setting should be locked if it doesn't have to (i.e. things that would just break the game).
Everybody should have the right to customize his/her server to his own taste, people will vote with their presence whether they like it or not.

You can create your own server with the settings /you/ want. If nobody likes it, nobody is going to play there. If people like it, more server admins might adapt the configuration. That's how it should work and that's how it's gonna be.

Preety much this.
It would be nice if we could toggle some of those server settings without just choosing between "all or nothing" (hardcore or classic) though.

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kiwidog
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Re: "Official" VU Weapon Stat Revision thread

Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:34 am

*disables m4 auto's bullets*
*makes aek golden*
*disables suppression deviation*

seems balanced to me :roll:
kiwidog > NoFaTe.

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