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Bruce Lee
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Re: Official DU4 Server Thread

Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:20 am

weavii wrote:
MAGIC wrote:Well, serveradmins can ban anyone without any reason

we can but we don't.

No spectate + no demo = No proof = ALL bans are based on nothing by definition.


weavii wrote:we won't tolerate players with settings/tools that give them an unfair advantage

Banning people for "unfair settings", lol.


weavii wrote:du4 prospects, du4 memebers or admins will ban, tban or kick without providing any proof.

That is the reality of BC2 shkipermaks. Complaining about it won't change anything.
If you don't like taking the risk of being banned when you are innocent then don't play on those servers.
Instead of complaining, why don't you just get together with some buddies and start your own server.
Then you will be the one with the power instead of pointlessly begging somebody else to behave better. ;)
"The world is like a big circus and the crooked businessmen and their puppet politicians are the biggest clowns in the show." -Anon.

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weavii
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Re: Official DU4 Server Thread

Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:01 pm

Bruce Lee wrote:
weavii wrote:
MAGIC wrote:Well, serveradmins can ban anyone without any reason

we can but we don't.

No spectate + no demo = No proof = ALL bans are based on nothing by definition.


weavii wrote:we won't tolerate players with settings/tools that give them an unfair advantage

Banning people for "unfair settings", lol.


weavii wrote:du4 prospects, du4 memebers or admins will ban, tban or kick without providing any proof.

This is the reality of BC2 shkipermaks, so get with the program or move on.
If you don't like taking the risk of being banned when you are innocent then don't play on those servers.
Instead of wasting time complaining, why don't you get together with some buddies and start your own server.
Then you won't have to go begging other servers to play "fair". ;)


Spectating or demos = no proof either. You can see how a player behaves and tell how likely it is to be legit, but you never can tell for sure.
The only proof is checking hashed game files or running processes, which even then can lead to some false positives. And because there are private FUD hacks for PB/VAC/BattleEye you can never be sure even on monitored games.
The only thing we can do is guessing the chance of a player hacking by some facts.

Even if the 3d spotting is not working properly you can tell after some minutes if a player can not only see you through objects, but he can identify you. And obvious aimbots are obvious, human like ones will never be detected.
For instance banning a player only because he is winning a lot of 1vs1/having kd 20 is wrong. But if he has got 50% headshot hits while playing 1/3 of the time with the pp2000 is a reason for a ban, especially if he is doing this across the whole map.

And by settings I meant modded game files, not ingame settings/macros/mouse driver stuff and so on.

weavii wrote:du4 prospects, du4 memebers or admins will ban, tban or kick without providing any proof.

In case you missed my point, this means we won't discuss any evidence publicly.

Every single ban not caused by some anti cheat system is made without evidence and since PB is not working here, this is the case. By watching demos or spectating you can only guess "better" but even then you can't tell for 100% sure. You just got better chances to catch the right one.

If you cheat, even with a "small" permanent-spotted-hack, you will attract attention. Maybe not in a week but in the long run. And if you don't, then you probably don't even profit and could as well turn it off.

We use everything we have, which is a mix between of 24+ eyes, stats, videos and experience, to keep our servers clean and therefore keep the game funny. Why would we ban random people? We want to keep our servers populated, I mean we are spending a lot of time and money. Banning people is not fun or something we enjoy.
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Bruce Lee
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Re: Official DU4 Server Thread

Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:48 am

weavii wrote:By watching demos or spectating you can only guess "better" but even then you can't tell for 100% sure.

The evidence provided by a demo is not a "guess", it is a stone cold fact.

A game that has spectating+demo in the engine (like CoD4 for example) has the means to spot aimbots, wallhacks, no-recoil, and any other cheats that have blatant visual cues with 100% accuracy period.
Spectating allows admins to identify cheaters with 100% accuracy in real time and demo recording allows them to file evidence for the ban at the server database should the player choose to dispute it. The ability to spectate+demo also allows players themselves to send 100% proof of another player cheating to the server website for ban review as well.

Since BC2 has neither spectating nor demo capabilities then bans are indeed based on a "guess".
But let's be clear about the issue.

Pretending that game hash checks or any other surreptitious anti-cheat is as good as a demo is just silly.
Anybody that isn't willfully blind knows that punkbuster is totally impotent as an anti-cheat. All you have to do is google
"punkbuster undetected cheats" and you will get a slew of websites offering hax that easily circumvent it.
Since punkbuster is much more thorough than anything du4 can hack together, a cheater with any knowledge at all will crack du4 security like an eggshell.

The inevitable result will be that banning innocent players is more likely than catching and banning actual cheaters, lol.


P.S. From your post I got the impression that you are reading the player's hard drive without his consent.
Without a legal consent from the injured party you are in serious danger of running afoul of the law in most countries.
"The world is like a big circus and the crooked businessmen and their puppet politicians are the biggest clowns in the show." -Anon.

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weavii
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Re: Official DU4 Server Thread

Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:45 am

Bruce Lee wrote:
weavii wrote:By watching demos or spectating you can only guess "better" but even then you can't tell for 100% sure.

P.S. From your post I got the impression that you are reading the player's hard drive without his consent.
Without a legal consent from the injured party you are in serious danger of running afoul of the law in most countries.


At least put your trolling at the beginning of the post so I can stop reading it immediately.

Theoretically every combination (except noclip and so on) of a player moving, aiming and shooting is possible, however not all are "same probable". The only real evidence is a PB screen for ESP stuff/checksum of files/processes.

Technically a "certain amount of probability" is enough for a good evidence. Therefore I would love to have first person spectating or even demos.

Demos are great for speedhacks/bad aimbots/norecoil and so on, but for a good aimbot or a subtile wallhack pretty useless and if those are even privates ones, you really can't do nothing but checking his stats and try to find out if he is good or a cheater.

Demos are good, we don't have it.
Edit: I just read your sig. I should really not feed the troll anymore ^^
Last edited by weavii on Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kerrigan
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Re: Official DU4 Server Thread

Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:49 am

Can you please stop this chit-chat ?

@ Weavii Denying a demo/spectator mode as a proof is senseless. Either DU4 doesn't want to give up their position to ban players by wild guesses or.. idk.

You can't just tell by their behaviour. I can tell that i had streaks going which didn't seem to be legit but have been perfectly legit after all. A ban would have been wrong and their hadn't been any proof either which would have justified the ban.

Bruce Lee wrote:The evidence provided by a demo is not a "guess", it is a stone cold fact.

A game that has spectating+demo in the engine (like CoD4 for example) has the means to spot aimbots, wallhacks, no-recoil, and any other cheats that have blatant visual cues with 100% accuracy period.


He is right. You can see crosshair movement and the spectated player looking through walls, snapping aim and whatnot.
It is way more easier to prove cheating in a game when you have a possibility to spectate and/or record proof.

Btw stats doesn't mean anything....

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weavii
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Re: Official DU4 Server Thread

Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:54 am

Kerrigan wrote:Can you please stop this chit-chat ?

@ Weavii Denying a demo/spectator mode as a proof is senseless. Either DU4 doesn't want to give up their position to ban players by wild guesses or.. idk.

You can't just tell by their behaviour. I can tell that i had streaks going which didn't seem to be legit but have been perfectly legit after all. A ban would have been wrong and their hadn't been any proof either which would have justified the ban.

Bruce Lee wrote:The evidence provided by a demo is not a "guess", it is a stone cold fact.

A game that has spectating+demo in the engine (like CoD4 for example) has the means to spot aimbots, wallhacks, no-recoil, and any other cheats that have blatant visual cues with 100% accuracy period.


He is right. You can see crosshair movement and the spectated player looking through walls, snapping aim and whatnot.
It is way more easier to prove cheating in a game when you have a possibility to spectate and/or record proof.

Btw stats doesn't mean anything....


Why? We are discussing about cheat detection.

I never denies it is not easier, just that is theoretically not a 100% proof.

Why don't stats mean anything? http://www.team-des-fra.fr/CoM/
Not a prood but a good help.
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Bruce Lee
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Re: Official DU4 Server Thread

Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:54 am

weavii wrote:Edit: I just read your sig. I should really not feed the troll anymore ^^

You can tell you are over the target when you see the flak.

When someone becomes personally insulting it means they know they have lost the argument.
So fire away my friend, I can take it.
;)
"The world is like a big circus and the crooked businessmen and their puppet politicians are the biggest clowns in the show." -Anon.

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Kerrigan
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Re: Official DU4 Server Thread

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:10 am

Cheat-O-Meter ?

I'm out...

laughing hard.

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weavii
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Re: Official DU4 Server Thread

Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:17 am

Kerrigan wrote:Cheat-O-Meter ?

I'm out...

laughing hard.


Afaik it works pretty well. You had bad experiences with it?
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mizudg
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Re: Official DU4 Server Thread

Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:52 am

weavii wrote:
Kerrigan wrote:Cheat-O-Meter ?

I'm out...

laughing hard.


Afaik it works pretty well. You had bad experiences with it?


How about I played Bf4 with several friends a couple of days ago on Siege of Shanghai with 64 players and about 50 tickets left of the round, about 40 people got kicked because of suspicious scores? GG
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